From Test-Scratch-Wiki

(Make new EWs?)
m (Make new EWs?)
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:Hi there! What you don't realize is the reason why I left Scratch. So here's my story: I left Scratch because people never cared about everything I did in the Scratch community. I'd been helping out in the community for 10 months and never got one thank you. I replied to comments leaving very helpful comments. I replied to comments in the Scratch Welcoming Committee and the Scratch Design Studio and people that had been helping out for a lot less longer than me, they were selected to be a curator, but not me. I got so depressed that in order to get out of depression I stopped going on Scratch. I logged on to the Scratch Wiki and started editing and saw that I really loved it! I saw that you guys were holding an EW election in the regular Scratch Wiki and I got really excited. Then I decided to create a Spanish Wiki and wanted to become an EW so I could accept people's accounts and delete a page I accidentally added. I thought that becoming an EW would finally pay off all the hard work I'd done in the Scratch Community. I've decided that if you guys don't care all the hard work I do, I won't help out in the Wiki anymore since you guys don't appreciate a single thing at all. I thought this was going to be my new beginning...I guess not. Thanks a lot.<scratchsig>AghaCool</scratchsig> 19:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 
:Hi there! What you don't realize is the reason why I left Scratch. So here's my story: I left Scratch because people never cared about everything I did in the Scratch community. I'd been helping out in the community for 10 months and never got one thank you. I replied to comments leaving very helpful comments. I replied to comments in the Scratch Welcoming Committee and the Scratch Design Studio and people that had been helping out for a lot less longer than me, they were selected to be a curator, but not me. I got so depressed that in order to get out of depression I stopped going on Scratch. I logged on to the Scratch Wiki and started editing and saw that I really loved it! I saw that you guys were holding an EW election in the regular Scratch Wiki and I got really excited. Then I decided to create a Spanish Wiki and wanted to become an EW so I could accept people's accounts and delete a page I accidentally added. I thought that becoming an EW would finally pay off all the hard work I'd done in the Scratch Community. I've decided that if you guys don't care all the hard work I do, I won't help out in the Wiki anymore since you guys don't appreciate a single thing at all. I thought this was going to be my new beginning...I guess not. Thanks a lot.<scratchsig>AghaCool</scratchsig> 19:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 
::I saw your Scratch profile and I've never seen you on the Scratch community. You've never helped out there. Compared to me, you did nothing on Scratch. You don't understand at all and as you said I hope it doesn't demotivate me, it demotivates me COMPLETELY! The longer I'm on Scratch and the Wiki the more I regret it because it makes me sadder and sadder not getting chosen to do anything although I've been helping out for a while.[[User:AghaCool|AghaCool]] ([[User talk:AghaCool|talk]]) 21:07, 5 January 2016 (MET)
 
::I saw your Scratch profile and I've never seen you on the Scratch community. You've never helped out there. Compared to me, you did nothing on Scratch. You don't understand at all and as you said I hope it doesn't demotivate me, it demotivates me COMPLETELY! The longer I'm on Scratch and the Wiki the more I regret it because it makes me sadder and sadder not getting chosen to do anything although I've been helping out for a while.[[User:AghaCool|AghaCool]] ([[User talk:AghaCool|talk]]) 21:07, 5 January 2016 (MET)
 +
:::Hold your horses, AghaCool! We still have the EW election over at the English Wiki, so this isn't your only chance! However, I do understand you. Here, let me tell you a story.
 +
:::I suffer from mild depression. It's been about a few years now, and it isn't getting better. You know that feeling of hopelessness and how no one understands? Well, I go through that every single day. I have had some scary thoughts that go through my mind, but what am I going to do about it...
 +
:::Sometimes, all I think of is the bad stuff. My life is a big filter - bad in, good out. Good never even gets to go in, it's all bad... I thought no one cared, not one person felt me. I presume this is what you are going through as well. I know how it feels.
 +
:::Then, as I realized that this is going nowhere, I finally realized something. There are plenty of people who know how I am feeling and they care. I presume I didn't know there were so many people because my filter was still on. I realized that my whole family and all my friends know what I am going through. They don't ask if I'm ok much, because they know that I have depression 24/7 and that asking once every second isn't feasible. With that in mind, I know that they really do care. I care for them, and they care for me.
 +
:::And this relates to the wiki. We all thank you for your contributions.  Scratch members thank you for your contributions. We all do, I mean where would the wiki be without all its members? Thousands of people edit the wiki every day, and thousands of comments are posted everyday on Scratch. If someone thanked you for every comment you made, it would be very repetitive! Just know, people out are really happy that you are there. Some people are shy and don't want to admit that you are a big help. I know sometimes I am a bit reluctant too, because sometimes it is a bit awkward. However, opening up my 'filter', I know that someone near me cares and knows how I am feeling. They are thankful of me. I know lots of people on Scratch and the wiki thank you for your work.
 +
:::[[User:KrIsMa|KrIsMa]] ([[User talk:KrIsMa|talk]]) 23:46, 5 January 2016 (MET)
  
 
== Could integrated Google Translate help us? ==
 
== Could integrated Google Translate help us? ==
  
 
What do you think of [[Template:Translatemenu]] ? [[User:Mtwoll|Mtwoll]] ([[User talk:Mtwoll|talk]]) 11:57, 5 January 2016 (MET)
 
What do you think of [[Template:Translatemenu]] ? [[User:Mtwoll|Mtwoll]] ([[User talk:Mtwoll|talk]]) 11:57, 5 January 2016 (MET)

Revision as of 00:46, 6 January 2016

Translations: English - Italiano - Español - Français

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How to edit on the Scratch Wiki

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Welcome!

Hi everyone! Welcome to the Test Wiki, the home of many future wikis!

Edit: For better organization, please see: ToDo in the sidebar.

To Do List:

-moved to different page- ErnieParke (talk) 22:18, 20 October 2015 (MEST)

Thank you very much for your help to create this wiki Ernie! Mtwoll (talk) 22:51, 20 October 2015 (MEST)

It's my pleasure. I want to see what this Wiki will turn into. ErnieParke (talk) 03:56, 21 October 2015 (MEST)

Awesome, thank you for all your work :3 - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 14:13, 21 October 2015 (MEST)
For the ToDo: http://howto.scratch-wiki.info/ should be updated! - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 14:15, 21 October 2015 (MEST)

Feel free to add on to the To-Do list LiFay! :) ErnieParke (talk) 15:39, 21 October 2015 (MEST)

I changed your edits to DACH-#Indent-style, hope you agree!
I made a general Scratch_Wiki:ToDo that we can use in the future
Mtwoll (talk) 20:25, 1 November 2015 (MET)

Coming soon

Pretty soon, this Wiki is going to receive the ConfirmAccounts extension. I plan on using this Wiki to test various features and receive community feedback before deploying them to the language-specific Wikis (after I test for bugs and stuff on my own server, of course). Stay tuned for more as I have time! Jvvg (talk) 03:40, 21 October 2015 (MEST)

I'm looking forward to it! BTW: Can you technically help LiFay to translate the parts of the ConfirmAccounts-Plugin texts in the DACH-Scratch-Wiki that can't be translated on the wiki-side? There are some German texts that we want to change, but we don't know where to do it. I think there are some files that only can be translated with FTP-connection, or am I wrong about that? Mtwoll (talk) 20:20, 24 October 2015 (MEST)

WikiEditor

Can you install WikiEditor extension? It is a really good tool. --JayceeMinecraft (talk) 22:01, 21 October 2015 (MEST)

Is it relay important? Could you give some arguments why we need it? ("It is a really good tool" is no argument). Why did you give no links to the Plugin? Which wikis use it? Perhaps it is relay a good idea to install that Plugin...I don't know...I only know that every plugin we add could cause dangers of php-injection that we already had at the German scratch-wiki: It was lots of work to get rid of the php-virus that we think was caused by php-injection through a poor written Plugin we installed without thinking about the dangers. So I would say: Just add really established PlugIns that are used in Wikipedia or the other scratch-wikis. And: Deciding to install a PlugIn can be a long process... I think there is much work to do here before the process will be finished. Mtwoll (talk) 20:09, 24 October 2015 (MEST)

WikiEditor is already installed with the mediawiki package. All you need to do is to put require_once "$IP/extensions/WikiEditor/WikiEditor.php"; in LocalSettings.php then it will be there. WikiEditor is an upgrade for the editing toolbar at the top of the editing box. --JayceeMinecraft (talk) 09:05, 25 October 2015 (MET)

OK, done :-) Mtwoll (talk) 15:10, 25 October 2015 (MET)

First Test for building separate language spaces

I made first tests for building separate language spaces, by copying some articles of the existing wikis here, but changing them by "replace" in an editor so, as when they were articles of "new language test wikis" here.

If we start to create the international test wiki, we (or the native speakers of that language) can follow the path of "best practice" we explored by experimenting with that method: So e.G. Italian would use language space "it", Spain would use the language space "es", french would use the language-space "fr" and so on.

First Examples

Please enlarge the existing and add more examples to find out what is the best method. Later we could perhaps use bots for that transfer...

Replacements made for transferring to test wiki

Example: [:de:]] to [[:test:]]:

  • reaplace [[ by [[:de
    • so all german articles are in a separate "de:"-namespace
  • replace {{ by {{/de
    • so all german templates are in a separate ":template/de"-namespace

To do so for Indonesian just replace "de" with "id" and so on.

Advantages of the method

  • We have exact rules for the language communities how to build up their wiki
  • The transferring in both directions could be automatic by bots: You can transfer an existing wiki complete to "test wiki" for having examples and you can transfer an wiki from "test wiki" to the "real wiki", when it is ready to be established in reality

Questions to be answered

(I already wrote down some arguments, please add your thoughts an arguments)

  • Is the replace-method explained above relay the right choice?
    • There is no "real choice" concerning the templates, because there seem to be only one option for the ":template"-namespace, so you only can divide this namespace by "/" not by ":", else the templates wouldn't work with parameters and so on
    • There could be the alternative to divide the article namespaces by "/" instead of ":" That has disadvantages for searching (because you can search in a separate ":"-namespace but not in an "/"-separated room.
  • should English articles use the "en"-namespace of the test-wiki or should they use the base namespace without "en"
    • Advantage: English is the "original wiki", perhaps it's easier to handle it special: It also would be easier to copy English articles here as a template for translation
    • Disadvantage: Why handle English language other than other languages, that's not stringently and gives an wrong example at the test wiki
  • should English templates use the "en"-namespace of the test-wiki or should they use the base namespace without "en"
    • Advantage: see "articles" + it's much easier to build "copytranslate" English articles when you don't have to care for the templates at the beginning: Just let the templates English and care for the translation of the article first. Just after the language-community has a lot of articles they can try to think about templates.
  • How to deal with Interwiki-Links
    • We could try to create two Interwiki-link-methods per language for the test-wiki: One could be directed to the corresponding article in the test-wiki, the other one could be directed to the corresponding article in wiki of that language (if it already exist): If possible we could use [[:de:de:Articlename]] to connect to the real wiki and [[:de:de:de:Articlename]] to the test-wiki, because [[de:Articlename]] is already used for the language-space of the original article.

What do you think?

Mtwoll (talk) 17:26, 24 October 2015 (MEST)

1). Is the replace-method explained above really the right choice?
I'm not sure what you're talking about here, to be truthful...
2). should English articles use the "en"-namespace of the test-wiki or should they use the base namespace without "en"
I would say en: is best for English wiki articles to act as an example for other languages. Only pages that are not for one wiki only should use their base name (without "en" "ru" ect...)
3). How to deal with Interwiki-Links
Why would we even need to Interwiki to the test wiki? I can see why we might move some de, id, en articles over for testing purposes, but wouldn't we remove them afterwards? I don't see any purpose to them...
ErnieParke (talk) 02:38, 25 October 2015 (MET)

1) With "replacement method" I mean the set of rules described in #Replacements made for transferring to test wiki

2) I completely agree!

3) You are right: If we have no Interwiki we don't have any decisions to be made about it. Also, if we use "en:Articlename" as a normal articlename and not a Intwerwiki-Link to the English wiki, it's not possible to use Interwiki in the traditional way. But if we have no Interwiki here, we also loose some big advantages, like easy referring to the other wikis (not only in articles but also in discussions and technically pages)! e.g. I planed to transfer [[:de:Scratch-Wiki:Watch]] here (I think here is a better place than in the DACH-Scratch-wiki) and that would not work without Interwiki. You can't even write [[:en:userErnieParke]] here: I don't like this state. And perhaps we make this state non-"undo-able" by switching to the concept I described in #Replacements made for transferring to test wiki . Perhaps someone has an idea to solve that?

Mtwoll (talk) 07:44, 25 October 2015 (MET)

Ideas who could help to create a wiki-farm

Here is a copy of a discussion with user:jvvg about who could help to create a wiki-farm that I think is interesting enough to be continued here with all of you:

As you see, the accounting-system and management of the international scratch-wikis is very complicated, because they are all on their own. In Wikipedia this is solved much better because there are multi-national-accounts (if you got one you got all). Also there is the possibility to run a family of wikis like explained here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_family . That's seem to be not so easy, because there they are still discussing different possibilities how to do it. I think we should step forward even without having this matter solved, but we should have this solution in mind, so we have someday a administration-minimal self-maintaining solution.

I just saw that there is a group if wiki-developers trying actually solve this issue, see https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:MediaWiki_Farmers_user_group Perhaps we should join them? Browsing through the members of that group I found an interesting entry: https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:GeorgeBarnick .He works for Brikimedia a wiki-farm about LEGO and speaks English, German and French! As you surly know there are some connections between LEGO and Scratch and en:user:Lightnin even moved from Scratch Team to LEGO (see .https://scratch.mit.edu/users/Lightnin) So it's possible that they could help us with setting up a scratch wiki farm. Should we try to get in contact? Mtwoll (talk) 05:33, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I probably don't have the time to join that project, but if you or anyone else wants to join or use their code, that would be awesome. However, I doubt that simply because someone works with LEGO means that he knows Lightnin. LEGO is a pretty big company (however, it is still certainly possible).Jvvg (talk) 11:56, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Your right Lightnin and GeorgeBarnick must not know each other only because they both work for LEGO, but LEGO sponsored the Livelong Kindergarten (Mitch Resnick is even called the "LEGO Professor") and both worked also intensive with Mediawiki, so it could be useful for them (and also for us) to know each other. Mtwoll (talk) 23:05, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

True. I don't really know enough about this to provide any decent advice.Jvvg (talk) 00:42, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I think I will followup this idea, if I got the time and tell you here Mtwoll (talk) 15:40, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Here are some links to the brikimedia:

Links to Brikimedia users that perhaps could help us

I asked GeorgeBarnick + Lightnin

I 'm looking forward to their answers Mtwoll (talk) 18:00, 2 November 2015 (MET)

Thread and Answer of GeorgeBarnick

see: here Could you give the International-Scratch-Wikis advice how to build and run a wiki-farm?

Dear GeorgeBarnick,

we are in building up a project that is called "Create a Scratch Wiki in Your Own Language" . Target is to make it possible, that people (mostly teenagers) from any language could start a Scratch (Programming Language) Wiki like our:

(and so on) very easy. We discussed if you know other people from the scratch-community that work also for LEGO and if you could help us here:

Thank you for your answer in advance! Mtwoll (talk) 16:46, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

@Mtwoll: Hi, sounds like quite a project you're working on! The ideal way to set up a wiki farm for your needs would likely be in the same format as Brickimedia and ShoutWiki . These wiki farms use a single MediaWiki installations but have it run off multiple domains and databases, effectively making multiple sites off of the same files server-side. Brickimedia's configuration is (mostly) open source at https://github.com/Brickimedia/LocalSettings where you will be able to find the configuration that determines each individual site within the MediaWiki installation. However, for questions about setting this kind of wiki farm up, I'd advise you contact user:Lcawte. Hopefully this helps. --GeorgeBarnick (talk) 17:10, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your advice and the links, we will discuss that in our wiki Mtwoll (talk) 19:28, 5 November 2015 (MET)

Interwiki Bot Mass Edit Warning

Tomorrow, in the morning (anytime 10-12 EST) and possibly afternoon ( anytime 3pm - 9 pm) I will be running Interwikibot to move all english wiki template and images to here.

Edit:On Hold ErnieParke (talk) 03:15, 25 October 2015 (MET)

Generally: Great! But: By doing first experiments with manual copying from the "real wikis" to this "test wiki" I found out that we have to think, discuss and make decisions about Automatic replacements when transferring articles and templates between "real wikis" and this "test wiki".
With the English wiki it's somewhat easier, because the "base language" of this "test wiki" is also English. With Wikis of other languages it's more difficult, because they have also many "mediawiki syntactic"-words that are translated, e.g. [[File:Scratch logo.png|right]] could be [[Datei:Scratch logo.png|rechts]] in the German DACH-scratch-wiki (using the "wikis-base-language" for Mediawiki-syntax is optional, alternative you also could use English, but in DACH-wiki we use German language for that).
But also concerning transferring the English wiki here there are some decisions to be made (and I think we didn't experiment enough until now, to have a complete picture) : Most important is, if English templates shall have a separate namespace (not a real ":"-namespace, else templates would not work, but the "/"-namespace (I hope you understand #Questions to be answered even with my bad knowledge of English ;-). In the moment I tent to "no namespace for English templates". Perhaps you do some manual experiments yourself and define a written set of replacement rules here: I'm also very keen on the result of your "bot-based-mass-transfer", but perhaps we could avoid problems if we experiment and think a little bit more before doing something that has no easy "undo"... Mtwoll (talk) 06:54, 25 October 2015 (MET)

a) I can test this on my bot first. I would put in what I want it to do, and the bot would say what it wanted to do (but not actually do it). Would you like to see a list of what it would do?

b) Anyway, I don't see a problem with mediawiki syntactic words. New wikis can use File: until we transfer them to their own website. I think I could even swap out File: with Datei: with InterwikiBot (given some testing and research first).

c) Why are we transferring the English Wiki here? Isn't the Test Wiki for new language wikis (Arabic, Chinese, Ukrainian), not established wikis (English, DACH, Japanese)?

d) I would think putting English templates at Template:En/Name sounds good. Also, Image:En_Name sounds good. What do you think?

e) By the way, thank you for commenting. I did not know of these problems. ErnieParke (talk) 16:25, 25 October 2015 (MET)

a)1) Yes, testing is always good. If you want and it's not much effort for you, you could have me a look at your testing results before doing it in reality. I would also trust in your abilities without having a look, so it's completely up to you to decide if a "second look" helps or slows down things that could be easier changed after seeing the result. Mtwoll (talk) 10:50, 26 October 2015 (MET)
b)2) I agree
c)3) Transferring the English Wiki (or parts of it) here could give a good example how articles of non-existing wikis must be changed in comparison to the "real wiki". Replace [[en:Articlename]] with [[it:Articlename]] is easier to understand tahn explaning it in an other way to an scratcher from italy. Mtwoll (talk) 10:50, 26 October 2015 (MET)
d)4) Yes, so you can decide which templates an pictures did come from the English wiki and could be replaced later with native ones.
e)5) Your welcome, I don't know many things about Mediawiki either, it's all "leaning by doing". Because I'm used to "non English Wikis" I found out some things more about that, but I think there still is much knowledge missing, that could help us making the "international scratch wiki idea" real: Perhaps tt would help, to get a real experienced member of an existing "wiki farm" like Wikipedia or perhaps Brikimedia aboard.
Mtwoll (talk) 10:50, 26 October 2015 (MET)
Is everything prepared to let the bot do the job? Is there still something to explore or to decide? Mtwoll (talk) 19:51, 1 November 2015 (MET)

Proposed Edits

Due to some difficulties, I cannot use Pywikibot (the current InterwikiBot code) to correctly transfer templates from the English Wiki to here. So, I've had to fall back on custom Java code. I am posting the proposed edits here so that others may view them. See: User:InterwikiBot/Proposed Edits ErnieParke (talk) 04:27, 2 November 2015 (MET)

  1. I also think the best solution is write own code to transfer templates correctly. It doesn't matter if you would have to use your Java code if the result works.
  2. I think it is no good idea to transfer all images. User images, and april fool wiki images should not be transferred if possible
Mtwoll (talk)

I followed your advice, and I’m ready to import the templates into the Test Wiki. Before I do, though, can you look at the list of proposed edits? http://test.scratch-wiki.info/wiki/User:InterwikiBot/Proposed_Edits ErnieParke (talk)

Does your bot also exchange all calls of templates and pictures to {{en/templatename and [[file.png:en/filename ? what's about categories? Shouldn't we use [[category:en/ also? Anything else to think about?
or is
[[file.png:en:filename
and
[[category:en:
better?
Perhaps we should only use / at
{{en/templatename
because only templates have the problem that they have to be in the original template namespace to call them, whereas everything else can move to the English namespace... Mtwoll (talk)

This is another good reason why I post the proposed edits first.

Anyways, yes, I can fix the category:en/ and the other naming conventions.

I guess [[category:en:name sounds good, but we cannot do [[file:en:filename because there cannot be a : in the filename. We also cannot do [[file:en/filename. So file:en_filename sounds best. Thoughts? ErnieParke (talk) 15:25, 2 November 2015 (MET)

...just thinking loud...
  1. I see the Problem that it gets more and more complicated for new language authors to change their edits so that they stay within their language-space. If they only use the English templates, pictures and categories it's allright, but if they want to do own ones they must always think of what to replace with what, because it's not only done with the "en:", "de:", "it", "es:"...If we use ":" for articles, "/" for templates and "_" for pictures somebody from e.g. Italy must use :it /it _it...
  2. It would be so easy if there would exist a "wiki-farm-Edition" of Mediawiki ready to set up, where you got "en.yourdomain/wiki/Articlename", "de.yourdomain/wiki/Articlename", "it.yourdomain/wiki/Articlename", "es.yourdomain/wiki/Articlename" automatically for all languages and pictures and templates working inside and every language-subdomain and also mixed between different subdomains...perhaps the team mentioned in #Ideas who could help to create a wiki-farm is working on such an Edition? But waiting for that will last to long for us...
  3. At https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/de they work with putting "/de", "/it", "/es" behind to have the Mediawiki-Manual in all languages: Problem is that the "link of the Article" stay in english...but somehow they managed it at least to have an german Artikle-Name e.G. at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download/de ....
  4. Whatever: We have to make some decision here, so what about a radical solution: The easiest way could be, forget all "language-spaces" of templates, categories and pictures...mix that stuff like you want and make the language-space only within the articles: Late,r if you want to transfer the articles to the real wiki, you parse the articles of a language-space to find all categories, templates and pictures that are needed and transfer only that stuff.
The more I think about the more I like the radical solution...it's a little bit of chaos, but it's also very easy...What do yo think? See you at de:SC at 20:00 German time! Mtwoll (talk) 17:28, 2 November 2015 (MET)

Via Scratchclub, we agreed on only templates will be separated by language. Everything else will not.

Also, I finished transferring templates. Yay! :) ErnieParke (talk) 23:44, 2 November 2015 (MET)

Proposed Edits #2

Due to a small bug, InterwikiBot did not transfer all template pages. I fixed that bug. Here are the new proposed edits: Dropbox Link (It make take a few seconds to download.)

It would be really nice if anyone could take a quick look and comment here with their thoughts.

Yes, I know that the proposed edits include the templates that are already transferred. That is okay. - ErnieParke (talk) 02:24, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I had a brief look: Looks good to me, but It's so much that you can't tell if there could be bugs inside. I think you should execute it, then we will see. Mtwoll (talk) 02:55, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Okay. The Test Wiki is currently being edited.

Edit: I am putting the transfer on hold for the moment.

Edit #2: Jvvg fixed an issue involving templates and links. I will resume transferring templates. ErnieParke (talk) 03:17, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Proposed Edits #3

After some code overhaul, I can finally transfer selected images from the English Wiki to here. I am trying to move over all images, minus user and April Fools images. The proposed edits are here: Google Docs link

File size: ~590,000 characters

Because the file is so large, what I would like people to do is:

  • Pick a few random edits. Do they look correct? Try to pick a few from the beginning, middle, and end.
    • Is the image url correct?
    • Is the image a user image or april fools image? It should not be.

Edit: Updated. Common Scripts Images and Scratch Cat are somehow in the image category. - ErnieParke (talk) 23:19, 7 November 2015 (MET)

I chose three random edits and they were fine :) - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 23:33, 7 November 2015 (MET)
I also had a look at a few eduts and they were all right for me. Best you test with increasing numbers of edits like 1-10-100-400-all and control the result with every step. Mtwoll (talk) 06:20, 8 November 2015 (MET)

Okay, I will try that idea!

@Everyone: I will be pushing edits over the next several hours. - ErnieParke (talk) 17:24, 8 November 2015 (MET) Due to some bugs, I will continue transferring images into tomorrow. - ErnieParke (talk) 01:22, 9 November 2015 (MET)

Indent style

  1. Suggestion: I will "reformat" our posts here (marking it with #Indent style) when answering to the new indent style until everybody is used to it.
  2. Does somebody know how to add a template to click-hide-unhide the long thread below?
Mtwoll (talk) 10:31, 2 November 2015 (MET)

I don't think we should use the "Indent style" of the English scratch-wiki in our discussion here, because it has big disadvantages and I would immediately suggesting to change it even in the English wiki to the "Indent style" we use in the German DACH-Scratch-Wiki, if not everybody was used to it there since many years. In the English wiki every new post to a thread gets an indent: After a few posts you are at the end of the line: That makes no scene, because the indent nearly has no information (only: "Here starts a new post"). The DACH-Indent-style is different: Here yo make an indent only if a new author starts posting and every author stays in the number of indents where he started with his first post to the thread. So you are not at the end of the line so fast and you have the additional information to see who did the post with one look.

Examples

What do you think? Mtwoll (talk) 08:03, 25 October 2015 (MET)

That is not exactly the English indent style. The problem is that not everyone follows it, so it turns into what you posted above. The indent style we use is:

Example English Indent Style

Once we hit 6 indents, we outdent to 0 indents and use a template to show that.
I support using the DACH indent style for the test wiki because I imagine there won't be too many editors per discussion. ErnieParke (talk) 15:49, 25 October 2015 (MET)

Creation

Can I help create this wiki? I have done most of the things on the to-do list. :)--JayceeMinecraft (talk) 13:11, 28 October 2015 (MET)

Yes, you are welcome! Do you know a language apart from English and Igbo? You could make the start for a Start-Page of this language (like Spain, french or it Italian...). You could also make an Igbo-Start-Page, just to have an example: Perhaps it attracts other People that speak Igbo? Making Start-Pages I would suggest not just to copy the English Start-Page Wikimedia-Code and translate it, because it looks so complicated for starters: I would prefer to change it like we did in the DACH-Scratch-Wiki, to use templates for the boxes.
see:
Scratch_Wiki_Test_Home#List of Test Wikis
Mtwoll (talk) 13:41, 28 October 2015 (MET)
@user:JayceeMinecraft: Where are you? Is it only a coincident that you remind my very strong to our new user:U_W_N? Mtwoll (talk) 13:30, 1 November 2015 (MET)

Recent and upcoming software changes

Today, as some of you noticed, the Wiki was down for a little while so we could upgrade it to the latest version of MediaWiki and then retrofit the skin to work with that version. That went without any problems, and you can now enjoy the new features! (If you want to use the Scratch Wiki Skin on MediaWiki 1.25 or later, you can use my version).

However, that process is only the first step. I had to upgrade the software to lay the groundwork for the next step, which is installing the ConfirmAccounts extension on this Wiki. Once that extension is installed, administrators will be able to review account requests, and we can really start operating this the way it was intended.

If all goes well, the ConfirmAccounts extension will be installed tonight.Jvvg (talk) 20:12, 29 October 2015 (MET)

Awesome, thank you sooo much!!! - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 22:29, 29 October 2015 (MET)
The ConfirmAccounts extension has been successfully installed! I have sent a message in the email chain among the admins here explaining how to use it.
Jvvg (talk) 01:28, 30 October 2015 (MET)
Great! user:U_W_N was the first who used it and I would be happy if every new user was so active like him. I would even be more happier if user:U_W_N could be integrated (and integrates himself) good in our community. :-) Mtwoll (talk) 13:20, 1 November 2015 (MET)

How much work do we have left to do...

...before it is time to release our new project? Also, I have a few questions of my own....

  1. Does Scratch Wiki in your Native Language have an account on Scratch?
  2. Will we be letting just anyone edit, or will anyone who wants to start a wiki get an account?
  3. Will the "DACHadmins" group have the CONFIRMACCOUNT right?
  4. Should we set

$wgGroupPermissions['*']['view'] = false;
to FALSE in local settings until we are done? U W N (talk) 16:17, 31 October 2015 (MET)

1. No 2. We'll use jvvgs account confirmation system 3. what is the DACHadmins group? 4. No, why should we? Isn't it nice if everything is transparent and our progress is visible for everyone? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 17:35, 31 October 2015 (MET)
  1. May I make one to help announce new things?
  2. Ok, but I'm going to request some edits to MediaWiki pages for the circumstances.
  3. It's something I asked Jvvg to create.
  4. I meant, until it's released. U W N (talk) 18:31, 31 October 2015 (MET)
1. We should have a discussion on this - please create a new heading and ask people to vote :) 3. What is that group for? What is it's purpose? 4. Yes, I understood that, but I don't see why people shouldn't be able to see what we do? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 19:31, 31 October 2015 (MET)
  1. Ok, I will.
  2. (nothing)
  3. It's so that everyone in charge of coordinating all the wikis (all b'crats and me) can have certain permissions.
  4. I'm sorry, I meant to say REQUESTACCOUNT, not VIEW. U W N (talk) 20:52, 31 October 2015 (MET)
1. Great! 3. Which permissions and why are they needed? 4. Ah okay I see what you mean. Still don't see why it's necessary though ... Anyway, I'm really glad you're thinking about this all and contributing so many ideas!! - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 21:35, 31 October 2015 (MET)
  1. (nothing)
  2. (nothing)
  3. editing the DACHadmins group, a new protection level, protecting pages, and confirming accounts.

3a. So other people can join
3b. So things like the frontpage can be protected at an "us" level
3c. You can only protect at levels you can edit, so no worries
3d. We are the people who help get wikis a'rolling, so we should be able to let others in.
4. Because people don't need to be requesting account right now. U W N (talk) 22:09, 31 October 2015 (MET)

3. Hm... But isn't this basically what Admins are doing? Why would we need a special group? Also 4. Why not? We're not an exclusive club are we? If others like you want to join, that'd be great, right? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 22:59, 31 October 2015 (MET)
3) But anyone who is involved should be able to. 4) Well, I was discussing it with Mtwoll for a long time. U W N (talk) 23:30, 31 October 2015 (MET)
3) But if everyone (and I think more people will join us here) would get the same rights, what would be the sense of page protection and the account system? 4) Well, only because Mtwoll said something doesn't mean I have to agree :P I discuss with him very often, and I really don't see the benefits of turning the accounts system off. - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 09:49, 1 November 2015 (MET)

Please let's focus on our main target!

To avoid misunderstandings about the mentioned "discussions", I cite my mail about that matter here:

Dear U_W_N

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 11:25 PM, mtwoll wrote:
Dear user:U_W_N,
We know nearly nothing about you, there are not much information about you and your work for the community at your userpage at scratch (user since 1 month? https://scratch.mit.edu/users/U_W_N/ ) the scratch forum, at the wiki or at other places (like wikipedia, or a personal blog or something else).
Actually the site got no lack admins of any kind see http://scratch-dach.info/wiki/Scratch-Wiki:Watch and: we know all admins and the work they did and the trust they earned since years before they got admin. Nobody can get admin just by asking for it.
But: There is enough coordination work to do at the international scratch wiki community and I suggest you apply for http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/S:EW , do a good job, earn the trust of the community and get admin right when there is an urgent need for it in the future. If you are interested and did some edits, we can invite you to our ScratchClub, a voicechat the most involved people have every week at monday 20:00 german time: There would be the chance to learn more about each other so that trust could grow faster than just by editing...nevertheless edit work for long time is important...
Would you mind to copy this discussion at your talk page and use talk page instead of eMail in the future?
best regards/mit freundlichen Grüßen
user:Mtwoll

I appreciate that user:U_W_N is very active and hope our admins, welcome him friendly as a helpful author with a very good knowledge of Mediawiki, even if IMHO he acted a little "over -involved" when starting and did not read carefully enough before acting e.G. when doing:
But couldn't that happen to all of us?
I think it's great to have motivated people with much knowledge of Mediawiki aboard!
Nevertheless we must be careful that the "I want to change everything"-way could slow us down instead of increasing speed: Remember that we are not "A Wiki about the joy of being a Wiki-Admin" but "A Wiki to help the international Scratch Community". So for now let's end discussions about:
  • do we have we the right name?" (Nobody disagreed when starting, names's set now IMHO)
  • do we have the right indent-style? (yes, that's me. Reflection helps even in my case ;-)
  • do we need special rights for special people? (user:jvvg: Any problems to set EW up here?)
  • can we have a place for discussing secretely? (Why???? I would be happy if somebody reads it to get involved)
  • can we have this and that specialty that is possible in Mediawiki? (many things could help, but let's keep it simple at the start)
...Please let's save that things for later and focus on our main target: "Helping international Scratchers to build a wiki in their own language".
I'm relay happy that we reached so many targets within that short time, now it's still a small step to go public and inviting international Scratchers to start.
What do you think is urgently missing (not "nice to have") before going public?
Mtwoll (talk) 14:42, 1 November 2015 (MET)
  1. We still need a page to invite wikians. It would be easier for users to join if there was a dedicated page to showing them what the Test Wiki is, and how to join. (See the To-Do List above.)
  2. Also, we need a page discussing how everything is organized. Currently all of our thoughts are in the Community Portal. - ErnieParke (talk) 05:04, 2 November 2015 (MET)
  1. That's right. I reformated-transfered your list above to Scratch_Wiki:ToDo and put it at MediaWiki:Sidebar‎‎ because I think for the future it's easier there than having it as a part of a cp-thread-post
  2. Yes, you are right: Perhaps, we need a separate CP for site admins + ew's and a CP for the founders of "a scratch wiki in your language" that we will invite? So user:U_W_N was on the right way, but it doesn't have to be hidden IMHO.
What do you think? Mtwoll (talk) 10:19, 2 November 2015 (MET)
Well, while it doesn't have to be hidden from "view", I think that only we should get to edit it. U W N (talk) 23:43, 3 November 2015 (MET)
I think we should care for that when there is a problem and not invent problems just to care for that: Please let's focus on our main target! Mtwoll (talk) 19:07, 5 November 2015 (MET)

Is "Test Scratch Wiki" really the best name?

The purpose of this wiki started out as a giant sandbox, but it's changed now. Maybe it should be something like "Demo Scratch Wiki" or "Starter" or something. But Test? If people approve, I will change it. U W N (talk) 16:30, 31 October 2015 (MET)

I can't really think of a better idea right now. Demo or Starter doesn't seem right to me either... Anyone else an idea? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 17:29, 31 October 2015 (MET)
#Please let's focus on our main target! - Please end that discussion! Mtwoll (talk) 09:29, 2 November 2015 (MET)
Mtwoll (talk) 09:30, 2 November 2015 (MET)

Is there a place where....

project coordinators can talk in private? U W N (talk) 17:18, 31 October 2015 (MET)

By project coordinators, do you mean admins of this wiki? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 17:27, 31 October 2015 (MET)

No, I mean everyone here. U W N (talk)

Are there secret things you need to talk about? We have a non public voice chat every monday, but we also have a protocoll. You could use emails for private discussions. But I think for everything concerning the wiki we should stay as open and visible as possible so everyone can join the discussion and add their ideas :) - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2015 (MET)

I don't like voice chat because my mic makes me sound like I'm 7. I was hoping for a private forum of some sort. Could you set that up on something like coordination.scratch-wiki.info/forums or whatever? U W N (talk) 20:52, 31 October 2015 (MET)

Why would that be necessary please? We have email, right? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 21:31, 31 October 2015 (MET)
#Please let's focus on our main target! - Please end that discussion! Mtwoll (talk) 09:29, 2 November 2015 (MET)
#Indent style
Mtwoll (talk) 09:30, 2 November 2015 (MET)

Skin Glitch

Logo doesn't appear in the MonoBook skin. To fix, add this code to LocalSettings.php: $wgLogo = "$IP/skins/scratchwikiskin/wikilogo2.png"; U W N (talk) 18:35, 31 October 2015 (MET)

#Please let's focus on our main target! - alternative skins are not important at the moment. Mtwoll (talk) 10:28, 2 November 2015 (MET)

Mass Template Transfer starting now...

I will now move over some templates from Scratch Wiki rapidly.... U W N (talk) 20:56, 31 October 2015 (MET)

Awesome, thanks for your help!!! - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 21:32, 31 October 2015 (MET)
#Please let's focus on our main target! - please read
#Interwiki Bot Mass Edit Warning - @U_W_N: Please make sure you know about the activities of others by reading the community-portal before acting - else we will block our self Mtwoll (talk) 09:29, 2 November 2015 (MET)
Mtwoll (talk) 09:31, 2 November 2015 (MET)
I did read it, it's just that none of the templates I wanted were copied, and Ernie said s/he was done, so I did it m'self. And please don't block me just for this. U W N (talk) 01:14, 3 November 2015 (MET)
@MartinWollenweber: That sounds a bit harsh.
@U W N: We won't block you for this. There would have to be bad intention a few times to merit a block.
As for transferring templates, I was not done. I had put the template transfer on hold because there were some pieces of information that still needed to be ironed out. I guess I could have made that more clear. :)
However, I am in a pickle when it comes to transferring images here. The goal is to transfer images from certain categories from the English Wiki to the Test Wiki. I have not found any code that can do that (while not transferring every image). Maybe you could help search? - ErnieParke (talk) 03:47, 3 November 2015 (MET)
@Ernie + @U_W_N: I didn't talk about blocking accounts. Perhaps I have been misunderstood because English is not my first language: I meant if we don't read what the others do, we are going to block our self by that. One Hand must know what the other hand does, else you block yourself (Don't know if this was understandable? Excuse my poor English) Mtwoll (talk) 12:47, 3 November 2015 (MET)

Should we have an account on Scratch?

Add your name below for what you think:

Yes

U_W_N

No

  • LiFaytheGoblin
  • mtwoll: First I thought that's a good idea, but thinking about it I came to the conclusion that for now every member should speak for himself, invite people here and so on. Having a Test-Wiki-Scratch-Account would mean that we have to discuss what to say in the name of all other. It also could cause conflicts because somebody could use that account to speak for all, without asking the others.
  • jvvg - I agree with mtwoll. We should all represent ourselves.
  • ErnieParke - I imagine it would not be hard or time consuming to run this account. I know a friend who runs a Twitter account for an entire club. Members can suggest tweets, and there is very little conflict. However, I do not agree on the grounds that we do not need a wiki Scratch account. I do not see any benefits from this.

U W N (talk) 22:11, 31 October 2015 (MET)

But how would we post updates & stuff? (Using someone's main account makes them look more important than others) U W N (talk)
If we always post a link to a Wiki-Article that contains the main information, like anybody could do, it's nearly the same then having an account on scratch: We'll have no problem if we post "there is something happening at the Test-Wiki look-here-link" instead of "I'm the big Admin/EW that made following happen: Blablabla..." ;-) Mtwoll (talk) 13:01, 3 November 2015 (MET)

Adding WikiMonitor to this (and other) Wikis

With a fairly small amount of code changes, I could port WikiMonitor to run on other international Scratch Wikis (the messages are actually stored in the Wiki, see the WikiMonitor configuration list for how that works). All I would need is someone to translate the messages and volunteer to host it.

What does everyone think about having WikiMonitor on the other Wikis?
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:35, 3 November 2015 (MET)

Sure, but you'd need to make some changes. For starters, I see it makes rapid edit warnings, but those can be commented out due to the new recent changes style. But also, keep in mind that unless you're gonna run it on all the wikis, please don't do it here, because this is "practice" for running one's own wiki. U W N (talk) 06:26, 3 November 2015 (MET)
And I guess I could host it if you want. Is it web-server-y or local-computer-y? U W N (talk) 06:27, 3 November 2015 (MET)
Great! Also IMHO it's only "nice to have" we would like to test it at the DACH-Wiki...Its not a problem that it uses English when starting before we translate it, because we all speak English there. I hope the translation is possible via wiki-pages and must not be done via FTP? Also it's important that you can switch it of on a wiki-page, so you can get rid of it, if it runs mad and bothers the users. After having some experiences at the German wiki we could suggest it to the admins/main-editors of the other international Wikis. To transfer it here to the test-wiki will bis very difficult if you want to do it right, because the test-wiki uses all languages, not only English.
But: There are also some things that are much more important and not only "nice to have" that we should care. Most important is IMHO:
  • Having the Blocks Plugin at every international wiki working in the right language and having it here working in every language (perhaps dependent on the language space "en:","de:","it:","es:" ) see here.
  • Having a Community Portal running at all international wikis
  • Transferring all pictures & templates of the English wiki here by a bot (Ernies's just working on that)
  • Having an alternative (Plugin) for the Hit-Counter that's missing in Media-Wiki >= version 1.25 see here.
Mtwoll (talk) 14:00, 3 November 2015 (MET)

@U_W_N: It would basically run here as a test of its portability. It's also more computer-y, but it requires that you have the PHP command-line libraries installed.
@mtwoll: Yes, translating it is possible via changing pages on the Wiki. However, it only supports one language per Wiki. One thing to note is that you actually have to run it in a separate computer (i.e. not the Wiki server). It is possible to disable it on specific Wiki pages using the {{NoBots}} template. Also, WikiMonitor is not a high priority, I was just wondering if I should start making sure it's easy to transfer to other Wikis.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 17:49, 3 November 2015 (MET)

@jvvg By "testing portability" do you mean testing being able to do a find-replace on the wiki URL, import the pages, and see if it works? U W N (talk) 23:28, 3 November 2015 (MET)

http://howto.scratch-wiki.info/ + http://scratch-wiki.info/

I suggest we map the webpages

and

and put the content there. I don't like it, that we cant't edit this pages within a wiki, that one of it doesn't has links and that they looks completely unlike the Scratch-Wikis. We could write protect the How-To-Scratch-Wiki and Info to make sure that normal authors can't edit it. What do you think? Mtwoll (talk) 00:23, 4 November 2015 (MET)

You have a point there, (Martin?). Let's move the content to wiki pages and leave redirects on howto.scratch-wiki.info and scratch-wiki.info :) - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 17:07, 3 November 2015 (MET)
Moved the howto page. I'll move the other page as well. If we move it to info though we'll need to add more to it. - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 17:33, 3 November 2015 (MET)
Yes, except I'm not an admin, and Martin says I won't be becoming one. Why don't you set up the DACHadmins group? (Code is on Jvvg's talk page) U W N (talk) 23:23, 3 November 2015 (MET)
@U W N:
  1. Where is the connection between your post and LiFays post?
  2. In #Dear U_W_N I said you could become an admin, if we know you better and there is a need for new admins (see: Scratch-Wiki:Watch) .
  3. Also it could be helpful to behave like an admin even before you are one. IMHO admins read much more than they act & edit and when they act & edit they do it cooperative and with much care.
  4. I don't know what you mean by "the DACHadmins group"? Do you perhaps mean something like http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/S:EW ? Mtwoll (talk) 00:09, 4 November 2015 (MET)
@Lifay: I'm happy that you like the idea, I will ask user:de:akhof to do the mapping. Mtwoll (talk) 01:04, 4 November 2015 (MET)
No, I meant something along the lines of "everyone who is in the project gets the right", but since you seem to want EWs pretty bad, I asked Jvvg to merge them, what would you think of that? U W N (talk) 16:33, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Giant spaces after templates?

Hi! I found myself writing another list of existing Scratch Wikis so I decided to make a template for it. it's at Template:ListWikis. It seems to create a lot of space after the template though, at least for me: Test_Scratch_Wiki_Home#List_of_created_Wikis. Do you see it too and if yes: How can I avoid this? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 17:50, 3 November 2015 (MET)

I removed some blank space from the template. Do you like it now? - ErnieParke (talk) 19:59, 3 November 2015 (MET)

Crazy. How comes I didn't see the blank space in the template xD Thank you!! - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 20:08, 3 November 2015 (MET) Ah, I didn't know that counted as blank space x____x - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 20:20, 3 November 2015 (MET)

@LiFay: Please excuse for exchanging the list with logos: Info. I hope you like it :-). BTW: I made a NL-SW-Logo (only exchanged one color of the HO one ;-) and put it at NL:.
Joek (nl:user:xota) must still translate their wiki-skin there! Mtwoll (talk) 00:12, 4 November 2015 (MET)
I've struggled with blank space before. Some cases are really weird... ErnieParke (talk) 02:19, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Ah, Martin, sorry I didn't tell you about my plans :D Your list on Info looks very good for that page. Originally, I wanted to add a flagg in front of each item. Now that both lists are different anyway, I think we don't really need a template anymore, do we? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 21:49, 4 November 2015 (MET) Also, who made the hungarian and the dutch logo? They're not the final logos are they? - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 21:49, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I think we don't really need a template anymore, do we?
No
who made the hungarian and the dutch logo?
HU-Logo was made by the hungarian wikians. NL-Logo was made by me by changing one color of the HU-Logo ;-)
They're not the final logos are they?
Depends on the wikians of that language
Mtwoll (talk) 02:07, 15 November 2015 (MET)

Hit counter extension

I think I found one. Is everyone ok with me installing that here?
jvvg (talk | contribs) 17:52, 3 November 2015 (MET)

Fine by me. U W N (talk) 23:24, 3 November 2015 (MET)
Release status is still experimental - but it's the best we can get. I would agree to install it. Mtwoll (talk) 23:29, 3 November 2015 (MET)
I don't care how experimental it is--let's do it! U W N (talk) 23:31, 3 November 2015 (MET)
@U W N: I care...and every good admin should do...but I think the risk is acceptable in this case because it's directly connected with the original code of the hit-counter that has been part of MediaWiki up to 1.24. Please always think about that a weak implemented PlugIn can cause the danger of SQL-Injection and virus to our wiki...we had that at DACH...that's nothing we should "risk for fun" Mtwoll (talk) 23:39, 3 November 2015 (MET)

I am making periodic backups (and I am encouraging everyone else that can directly access the database to do so too) in case something does happen. This way I can restore to an earlier date in a matter of seconds. Anyway, I am going to install the extension shortly.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 01:44, 4 November 2015 (MET)

@jvvg:Sounds good for me. You really got my trust! Please install it also at the DACH-Scratch-Wiki so that http://scratch-dach.info/wiki/Special:PopularPages works again there. Thank you in advance! Mtwoll (talk) 01:54, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Why is there a new user here?

AFAIK, this wiki isn't open yet. U W N (talk) 23:21, 3 November 2015 (MET)

de:user:Frodewin is well known by most of us, if you would join de:Scratch-Club like en:user:ErnieParke does (you are heartily invited!), you would also know him. I think he will be a great help as he is in de:. Mtwoll (talk) 23:34, 3 November 2015 (MET)

Interwiki in the Test-Scratch-Wiki

Btw, we should get working interwiki at some point... Red links everywhere- LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 21:41, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Would ya like to do it now? Go for it! I ain't gonna stop you. U W N (talk) 04:08, 5 November 2015 (MET)

I don't have the powers to do that xD - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 11:09, 5 November 2015 (MET)

Yes you do.. You're a bureaucrat. U W N (talk) 16:14, 5 November 2015 (MET)
Beside the Interwiki-Config (Linda this time you should do it, just to find out how it works ;-) there is also an other Problem: We'll use "DE:" "IT:" "ES:" and so on in front of article names to have separate langue-spaces e.G. de:Hauptseite, so we can't use the same name for Interwiki-Links. Perhaps we could use other names like : "-DE:" "-IT:" :"-ES:" for Interwiki, so -de:Hauptseite could be the Interwiki-Link. We also could think about turn that around to have the Interwiki-Links the same than at all wikis:
  • Advantage:
    • The the PlugIn for the Interwiki-Sidebar will work without changing it
    • You dont't have to change the Interwiki-Links when moving to the real-wikis
  • Disadvantage:
    • Language-Space is spelled a little bit more complicated...perhaps difficult to understand for the starters...
Mtwoll (talk) 18:47, 5 November 2015 (MET)

Omg I didn't know I can do that o.O I'll try, but it's possible that I'll mess up. That is I'll try as soon as we decided on what to do about it (de: /...) - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 20:03, 5 November 2015 (MET)

I just set Interwiki up, pardon: I were to curios how our new namespace concept will work, see http://test.scratch-wiki.info/wiki/Special:Log/interwiki Mtwoll (talk) 00:45, 7 November 2015 (MET)

just a short test Test:

...hm...funny... Mtwoll (talk)

Yeah, that seems to be the best idea, because for example, wikis that start here, we'll put es:Scratch Cookbook Home, and then if it gets its own wiki, all the links will just POOF and change. U W N (talk) 01:24, 9 November 2015 (MET)
An edit conflict is when someone edits and saves a page that you began editing. ErnieParke (talk) 02:10, 9 November 2015 (MET)

Decisions to be made about Namespaces

Yes Done

We have still some technical decisions to be made here, specially what Namespace we will use for the different languages and Interwiki, see #Interwiki in the Test-Scratch-Wiki.

If you don't know Interwiki, see http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Scratch_Wiki:Interwiki it's a way to a) short-referencing pages of separate wikis in wikiartikles + b) set a reference to the same article in wiki of other languages in the Sidemenu. With Interwiki you can simply use a wiki-namespace (like "fr:") to Reference separate wikis (e.G. of other languages), but here in the mixed-language-wiki we also need namespaces to parting the different languages.

The matter of namespaces, not only for articles but also template, pictures and categories has already been discussed in the long thread #Interwiki Bot Mass Edit Warning.

But now we need a decision because their are the first authors of new languages starting (see User talk:Smrman). Perhaps its good to have that pressure of starting language authors, because we have to make decisions faster (but we can shift namespaces later, so it shouldn't keep us from starting) ;-) Mtwoll (talk) 12:14, 6 November 2015 (MET)

idea + test + decision?

I had an idea, made a test and if majority agrees we can also stay with this as an decision about namespace:

  • lets all new "test wikis" start in the same namespace that would be the Interwiki namespace if they already would exist as real wikis like "fr:","it:" and so on
  • lets do that also with all "demo-wikis" except writing a "-" in front of the namspace like "-en:", "-de:", "-id"
  • lets use the namespace of Interwiki for "real wikis" exact the same as everywhere like "en:", "de:", "id:"

I think that would work the best and I will change it now to test + demo that it works. I would be happy if you write what you think about. Mtwoll (talk) 20:59, 6 November 2015 (MET)

+1 good idea! - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 22:01, 6 November 2015 (MET)
Yes, this sounds good. Support! - ErnieParke (talk) 03:07, 8 November 2015 (MET)

Done, works and I think it's good. By experimanting I also find a good way to represent all our different wikis and even wiki-groops in the Sidebar, What do you think? Mtwoll (talk) 15:32, 8 November 2015 (MET)

Idea: "Your Language"-Sidebar link

Couldn't we change the Interwiki-Sidebar Plugin, so that additionally to all international scratch wikis it shows the link "Your Language" ? We could set up that up in all wikis (EN:SW at last because we had to convince the Scratch-Team what always lasts very long). That link could show anybody who is interested in setting up a wiki of his language the way here very easy. Mtwoll (talk) 12:36, 6 November 2015 (MET)

ToDo Table Updated: New Lines + Columns

I added a few lines and columns to or Test-Scratch-Wiki:To-Do.

@All: Please have a look where you can fill in your name or other information. We could also Link certain ToDos-lines to CP-Sections, were the ToDos are discussed. Mtwoll (talk) 15:20, 8 November 2015 (MET)

Hit counter extension has been installed

You can see it at Special:PopularPages. I'm not sure where it shows the hits for each article, though. That may require changes to the skin.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:09, 8 November 2015 (MET)

Great, thank you :D - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 20:07, 8 November 2015 (MET)
Some of the pages at the bottom appear to have 0 views--what's up with that? U W N (talk) 01:16, 9 November 2015 (MET)
@jvvg: Thanks again for installing counter extension here. It' seems to work quite good, so we would be happy to have it also at de: Could you install it there? Thank you very much in advance!
Test where it is needed (because counter is removed from wiki-version)
Mtwoll (talk) 12:50, 20 November 2015 (MET)

Essential Tasks before going public official

We should define which Task of our S:ToDo are essential before going public. As Fr:Scratch_Wiki_Accueil shows we are already "kind of in-official public" and I am happy that user:Smrman is so active in the French Scratch Wiki (with help of user:Lederniersamourai and user:LiFaytheGoblin, see: Test-Scratch-Wikis#List of Test Wikis).

So should we tell everybody that they can start? Or do you think there are some points at S:ToDo that must be finished before that? Which? And who will take responsibility for that points (doing it himself or searching until somebody is found who can do it)? What do you think?

I hope we don't have points at S:ToDo that stop us from continuing? (Blocks Plugin????) Mtwoll (talk) 15:17, 20 November 2015 (MET)

Non-english languages only in Namspaced Articles!

I saw that sombody changed Help:Contents (that's linked to the Main-menue!) to italien language (perhaps by accident?). It is very important that we use non-english language only in "Namspaced"-Articles, so it:Help:Contents would be allright. We should search a solution how to make also the help-menu "forign language friendly". What do you think? Mtwoll (talk)

And Help:Welcome. What do you mean foreign language friendly? Do you mean a sidebar more obvious so people won't accidently do what happened above? KrIsMa (talk) 07:14, 3 January 2016 (MET)

Yes! I think i found a solution by transfering the italien translations to separate articles made separate Italien-Sub-Menus for it in the MediaWiki:Sidebar and changed the overwritten articles back to its old english versions:

I also made a kind of "Translation Menubar (as a first try) at the top of the pages. We should have a more professional template for that...I'm also not sure if this is the right way (Interwiki? But that doesn't work because of language-spaces...)

What do you think? Mtwoll (talk) 08:36, 3 January 2016 (MET)

Please care for your userpages!

Could you all create or tell the other authors to create their userpages? I know that many of you have already great userpages at your homewiki, but if we get more and more authors here, well done userpages of the other authors could make them feel more comfortable. I saw that there were many empty userpages and deleted them all to have red links again at Special:ListUsers if there is no content. Mtwoll (talk) 11:41, 3 January 2016 (MET)

Agreed!AghaCool (talk) 16:56, 4 January 2016 (MET)

Make new EWs?

user:AghaCool asked me If he could get EW (here). At the en:SW it's not easy to get EW, and by rejecting an accepting accounts you could influence the whole community in good or bad direction. But here, where we plan to have low restrictions it'S an other thing. So I would agree, even if en:user:AghaCool is at en:WS only since half a year. What do the others think? Mtwoll (talk) 16:56, 4 January 2016 (MET)

I'd be ok with that, I guess. I think it would be good to have at least one EW for each language.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 17:09, 4 January 2016 (MET)
However, we don't get a lot of account requests (if any) here. KrIsMa (talk) 18:27, 4 January 2016 (MET)
We will since we're going to be getting new editors for the Spanish Wiki. Plus, its not just that. I accidentally added a page that wasn't needed and I'd need EW rights to delete it. I would really like to be an EW. :)AghaCool (talk) 19:27, 4 January 2016 (MET)
As always you can ask others to delete it for you. [1] for the list of users. How much experience do you have with MediaWiki and accepting accounts? Any skills that would make you fit for this usergroup? KrIsMa (talk) 02:00, 5 January 2016 (MET)

I changed my mind about you (user:AghaCool) getting EW because I found out that you deleted your Scratch-Account (see https://scratch.mit.edu/users/AghaCool/ ). An EW must be strong connected with and accepted by the community: That's not possible without Scratch Account. So sorry: We appriciate your work here very much and hope very strong that you will continue, but we can't make you EW. Every time you have to do a task where you need special rights, somebody of the admins will help you: Just ask, we'll be there! Mtwoll (talk) 07:28, 5 January 2016 (MET)

I have a new account. I deleted my old account because it gave away my name.:)AghaCool (talk) 15:29, 5 January 2016 (MET)
and KrIsMa I've had a bit of experience with the MediaWiki. I don't know how to accept accounts, but I am a very fast learner. I am a very dedicated person and I'm on the wiki every day. I am a very fun and happy person.AghaCool (talk) 15:30, 5 January 2016 (MET)

At https://scratch.mit.edu/users/AghaCool/ there is no account. Please accept that we can't make you EW because you deleted your original Scratch account. This is the final decision, I hope it doesn't demotivate you, but please accept it. Thank you for your understanding! Mtwoll (talk) 16:21, 5 January 2016 (MET) 16 (UTC)

Hi there! What you don't realize is the reason why I left Scratch. So here's my story: I left Scratch because people never cared about everything I did in the Scratch community. I'd been helping out in the community for 10 months and never got one thank you. I replied to comments leaving very helpful comments. I replied to comments in the Scratch Welcoming Committee and the Scratch Design Studio and people that had been helping out for a lot less longer than me, they were selected to be a curator, but not me. I got so depressed that in order to get out of depression I stopped going on Scratch. I logged on to the Scratch Wiki and started editing and saw that I really loved it! I saw that you guys were holding an EW election in the regular Scratch Wiki and I got really excited. Then I decided to create a Spanish Wiki and wanted to become an EW so I could accept people's accounts and delete a page I accidentally added. I thought that becoming an EW would finally pay off all the hard work I'd done in the Scratch Community. I've decided that if you guys don't care all the hard work I do, I won't help out in the Wiki anymore since you guys don't appreciate a single thing at all. I thought this was going to be my new beginning...I guess not. Thanks a lot.<scratchsig>AghaCool</scratchsig> 19:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
I saw your Scratch profile and I've never seen you on the Scratch community. You've never helped out there. Compared to me, you did nothing on Scratch. You don't understand at all and as you said I hope it doesn't demotivate me, it demotivates me COMPLETELY! The longer I'm on Scratch and the Wiki the more I regret it because it makes me sadder and sadder not getting chosen to do anything although I've been helping out for a while.AghaCool (talk) 21:07, 5 January 2016 (MET)
Hold your horses, AghaCool! We still have the EW election over at the English Wiki, so this isn't your only chance! However, I do understand you. Here, let me tell you a story.
I suffer from mild depression. It's been about a few years now, and it isn't getting better. You know that feeling of hopelessness and how no one understands? Well, I go through that every single day. I have had some scary thoughts that go through my mind, but what am I going to do about it...
Sometimes, all I think of is the bad stuff. My life is a big filter - bad in, good out. Good never even gets to go in, it's all bad... I thought no one cared, not one person felt me. I presume this is what you are going through as well. I know how it feels.
Then, as I realized that this is going nowhere, I finally realized something. There are plenty of people who know how I am feeling and they care. I presume I didn't know there were so many people because my filter was still on. I realized that my whole family and all my friends know what I am going through. They don't ask if I'm ok much, because they know that I have depression 24/7 and that asking once every second isn't feasible. With that in mind, I know that they really do care. I care for them, and they care for me.
And this relates to the wiki. We all thank you for your contributions. Scratch members thank you for your contributions. We all do, I mean where would the wiki be without all its members? Thousands of people edit the wiki every day, and thousands of comments are posted everyday on Scratch. If someone thanked you for every comment you made, it would be very repetitive! Just know, people out are really happy that you are there. Some people are shy and don't want to admit that you are a big help. I know sometimes I am a bit reluctant too, because sometimes it is a bit awkward. However, opening up my 'filter', I know that someone near me cares and knows how I am feeling. They are thankful of me. I know lots of people on Scratch and the wiki thank you for your work.
KrIsMa (talk) 23:46, 5 January 2016 (MET)

Could integrated Google Translate help us?

What do you think of Template:Translatemenu ? Mtwoll (talk) 11:57, 5 January 2016 (MET)