From Test-Scratch-Wiki

MartinWollenweber told me in e-mail I could have an account, just ask him. That's true :-) mtwoll Mtwoll (talk) 15:42, 30 October 2015 (MET)

Yep. And how in the world did you customize the welcome message?U W N (talk) 16:28, 30 October 2015 (MET)
I added a feature where the people processing account requests can add a custom welcome message.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 16:44, 30 October 2015 (MET)

I only was aware of this feature when I saw the message above afterwards ;-). But first: Welcome U W N! I hope you will help to make this wiki a realy productive "international scratch wiki incubator". I'm looking forward for the first new languages that will have articles here. Mtwoll (talk)

Just so we're clear, my username is U_W_N, not U W N. MediaWiki just parses _s as spaces because of article names U W N (talk) 02:57, 31 October 2015 (MET)

List of people on the front page

I feel like order of people on the front page is made of your personal judgement. I suggest to keep it neutral and have it in an alphabetical order. - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 17:31, 31 October 2015 (MET)

I want to change my username to A_W_N, then :P (Just kidding) U W N (talk) 18:29, 31 October 2015 (MET)

Who's U_W_N?

Disclaimer: This not about real name, address and other thing you should not publish!

I have the impression that you make a big secret of yourself and you background: That's not helpful to gain trust. All other people here know each other from cooperating at the international scratch wikis and have some information about themselves and their background on their userpages there. Your scratch account says that you are in scratch approximately one month and your three projects there don't demonstrate real interest in scratch: (I looked inside them: there is nearly no programming). The only thing we know about you is that you urgently want become admin of this wiki...What would yourself think if somebody comes from nowhere and tells you "let me be your admin?". I suggest you tell us more about your interest and the projects that you did before at your userpage. That could help. And naturally you are still invited to Scratch-Club if you like.( ) Mtwoll (talk) 01:35, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Woah, that's pretty accusatory and it kind of scared me. None of the projects I have made so far do I consider "good enough" to share. The ones I have are just tests. If you want to meet me, I intend to go to Scratch Day in May. I am just kind of a little shy around millions of people. U W N (talk) 02:07, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I didn't want to scare you, but if you again and again repeat your big target of getting admin you must accept that someone's asking questions about what qualifies you for that. By your technical advises you gave about Mediawiki I guessed you could be a great help, but from some of your actions I thought that it could be dangerous. So naturally I want to know a little bit about your background. Scratch Day takes place all over the world, so if I attend a Scratch-Day-Event in Germany and you attend one in South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands we probably will not meet ;-) Mtwoll (talk) 02:22, 4 November 2015 (MET)

That's not where I live, I just thought it sounded cool. BTW, I can prove my projects are terrible. I just shared one of them. U W N (talk) 02:29, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I agree :-), but didn't mean your Scratch projects: You must have done other projects with Mediawiki, haven't you? Mtwoll (talk) 02:33, 4 November 2015 (MET)

And I must point out that I dropped the admin point when you asked me too. I was just trying to help >:( U W N (talk) 02:30, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I'll try to get you EW for making a start, but please tell about where you got Experiences with Mediawiki Mtwoll (talk) 02:39, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Well, I don't have *that* much experience, but I have been reading at night. U W N (talk) 02:37, 4 November 2015 (MET)
I don't have an account on ENwiki, but you could make me an EW here. U W N (talk) 02:44, 4 November 2015 (MET)
I think what MartinWollenweber meant is that he would give you the English EW rights on the Test Wiki. ErnieParke (talk) 02:49, 4 November 2015 (MET)

yes, exacty Mtwoll (talk) 18:10, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Well, I don't think we need EWs, cuz I thought we were going with the DACHadmins thing (everyone who has a stake in the project gets the right), but if we're doing it this way, then oh well. U W N (talk) 02:53, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I don't know what you mean by "DACHadmins thing" but I hope that you will at least act as carefully as an admin, in the future, even as long as you are still author. IMHO this wasn't the case until now and caused a lot of work...Mtwoll (talk) 15:07, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I now read User_talk:Jvvg#I was using that page: I'm not happy with the "they made me this" and "they made me that" talk there. Nobody made U_W_N something as far as I know. And what is the whole "DACHadmins"-discussion good for? EW seems to be a working concept at the EN:wiki. My impression is: All U_W_N did until now was mainly time-consuming...

Mtwoll (talk) 18:10, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Wow Martin, that's pretty harsh :\ I think Wikis are about learning and I think so far U_W_N has learned a lot! He gave us many ideas and a lot of his time - some ideas where supported others weren't but that's totally fine imo because it's just normal. Why do we need to rush and go the perfect path already from the beginning on? This is a new experience for each and everyone of us after all, and not everyone is born as a Test Wiki expert! (I also remember the work I have caused in the DACH Wiki when I was new. I was so confused and you had to help me a lot. I messed up a few times but you guys didn't give up on me and that's why I am still here. Let's not give up on anybody here either, especially when they're super motivated!) - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 21:39, 4 November 2015 (MET)

The Difference

@Lifay & All: I tried to avoid to tell so clear that I see problems in the behavior of U_W_N, but it did cost me such a lot of time that now I had to do it. It's very good that you compare your start at the DACH-Scratch-Wiki to it, because this exactly shows the difference:

  • You never asked to get admin or to enlarge your administrative rights in any kind. Instead of that we asked you if you want to get admin after more then two years.
  • You did not go from one admin to the other to ask them if they could give you more power, e.G. by setting up special rights [1].
  • You never tried to put yourself in front [2]
  • You joined the wiki because you wanted to help the international Scratch Community. You did it not for the "joy of being a Wiki-Admin" that could lead to the "I want to change everything"-behavior that slows everything down
  • You never "made your own thing" without coordination with the others when something like this was already in progress [3]
  • You did not change structural things of the wiki without asking the others [4]
  • Furthermore you told us about yourself and your background [5] and you had a kind of career inside Scratch before you even joined the wiki (not just one month and nearly no projects [6]) so we could gain more and more trust in you.
  • We came to the conclusion that you are a truly person whom we can trust in. We never ever had the impression that you where using wrong identities or even Sockpuppets.

I would be perfectly happy if U_W_N did the same. I wrote everything about the very long way of getting admin or even EW in my mail to U_W_N some days after creating his account ([7]). Since I created this account I had to repeat it so often that now I'm all little bit exhausted and unhappy that I nearly couldn't invest time into our main target, because I had to care for U_W_N instead.

Perhaps it was an error to add people to the "set-up-staff" of the test scratch wiki, that haven't been author at least at one scratch-wiki. But can U_W_N know so much about Mediawiki without being in a Mediawiki-Project before? Or has he been? How could he even know about the test wiki-without being author at EN:wiki? (who reads the EN:wiki-CP regularly without being author there?) [8]. If he is so interested in Scratch-Wikis, wouldn't he at least having applied at EN:wiki? So one of following three things must be true:

  1. He has an account there with an other name. Why? or
  2. His application there was rejected. Why? or
  3. He did not apply there with a special reason. Why?

I suggest: U_W_N should tell us and then we can decide what kind of special rights he will get immediately (perhaps really Admin?). So he doesn't has to ask again within the next year and I don't to have to be worried what happens to our project. Mtwoll (talk) 09:06, 5 November 2015 (MET)

Yeah, I think we get it, and I have no problem with constructive criticism. What I was trying to point out (because I thought you might have lost your temper a little) was that you spoke quite abwertend about U_W_N and that's not okay imo, no matter what :) I think it's good that you went back to a more neutral tone tho! - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 11:14, 5 November 2015 (MET)

@LiFay: You are right. I lost my temper and I must apologize for that. But perhaps now you also saw why. I really spent much time with that matter and now I want U_W_N to please answer my "1,2,3 Why"-question above truly. Not like "...I just thought it sounded cool" like he did with the place he lives in his scratch speculation about what could be, is at my last sentence in [9] (see also [10] and [11]).

@U_W_N: I hope you now understand what I mean. Surely you only wanted to help but got a bit "over-involved" because your motivation was so high. Please answer my "1,2,3-Why"-question. If my above "speculation" is right, please tell: That will help! Please suggest what we & you could change, so we can make a kind of "restart" in a truly and positive way. Then I want the others (not me!) to decide what rights U_W_N will get for the period of - lets say - at least the next 6-12 months, before asking anybody again for any kind of more rights. Would that be OK? Mtwoll (talk) 12:40, 5 November 2015 (MET)

OK, but are we still gonna have the protection level?
The reason why I don't have an account on the Scratch Wiki is because they have a 2 month rule, and as previously mentioned, I am not two months old.
But that wasn't going to stop me from reading the wiki.
One of the things that is probably making you think I am hiding something is that my picture is still the default one--I just don't have anything to change it to.
And Jvvg says he lives in Antarctica--and you don't care about that.
Whenever I post a piece of code or something, I am getting it from here.
Does this answer all of your questions? U W N (talk) 16:03, 5 November 2015 (MET)
@U_W_N: It answered my questions. Did you understand #The Difference above? Do you want to change something?

@All: What do you think and which user-rights should U_W_N get for the next 6 month? Mtwoll (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2015 (MET)

I suggest him writing an official application where he tells which rights he wants and why it is necessary and good that he gets them. - LiFaytheGoblin (talk) 09:39, 6 November 2015 (MET)
Well, I was only trying to help when I asked for any rights, but I guess I'd be open to that. All I need for now would be our own protection level (aka

$wgRestrictionLevels[] = ['Project_Managers'];
$wgGroupPermissions['Project_Managers']['protect'] = true;
$wgGroupPermissions['Project_Managers']['unprotect'] = true;

But I think that admin would help me not do the things listed above (e.g. fixing the sidebar after I moved the CP).
Unrelated : What is our estimated release day for the test wiki? U W N (talk) 16:22, 6 November 2015 (MET)

@U_W_N: We are not in this thread to discuss technical details and dates. I get the impression you don't take the whole thing serious. Also - having just contact with a newbie here - I ask myself how you could get completely fluent in Mediawiki-Syntax and Rules without working in an Media-Wikiproject before. That's not possible from reading the Scratch-Wiki for less than one month and looking things up in I feel there is something wrong here. Please post the links to the Mediawiki-Projects you worked in before. Please read #The Difference again. Please tell what you want to change. I suggest you stay with your existing rights for now and help the newbies of all languages to get inside Mediawiki-Syntax and Rules. Mtwoll (talk) 23:09, 6 November 2015 (MET)

I'm not "fluent" in MediaWiki from reading that page, I am getting all the code from there right before I post it. U W N (talk) 02:11, 7 November 2015 (MET)
@MartinWollenweber: How about for now U_W_N stays a regular user, and in a month we decide if U_W_N should get more rights? ErnieParke (talk) 04:56, 7 November 2015 (MET)

@Ernie: That's alright for me. There is enough work to do without admin rights here like coaching the newbies, helping to create the new wikis and so on. In this Month U_W_N should not ask anybody to give him more rights, special not try to convince admins separately to give him those rights (like he did) and don't bother anybody with admin-things that he could do, if he only had that rights and now shall be done by somebody else because he suggests it (I have the feeling nearly every post by him was about that).

If he doesn't comment on the #The Difference and does hide his background as he did until now, I will not change my opinion in one month or even later. If he is a newbie expertise is missing. If he is no newbie and doesn't tell trust is missing. In any case it could be very dangerous to give somebody more then author rights before he has experience and we got trust. I can only repeat one of my very first mails to U_W_N: S:CP#Dear U_W_N and can't believe that we spent so much time when everything about that was just written there. Now I'm sure: It was a big error to add people to the "set-up-staff" of the test scratch wiki, that haven't been author at least at one wiki.Mtwoll (talk) 16:16, 7 November 2015 (MET)

@Mtwoll But if I'm not getting extra rights--then how do I create new wikis? I'd like a little more explanation (but I'm OK with whatever outcome) U W N (talk) 19:06, 8 November 2015 (MET)
I know I'm being a little repetitive here, but we should always try to follow Wiki standards, even in discussions. This means a few things: keeping a neutral point of view (in this case not actively trying to promote yourself or gain additional power unless there is a reason that helps the quality of the Wiki as a whole), supplying references/citing sources/backing up claims (in this case, substantiating your claim of experience on other projects), and following established guidelines (in this case avoiding making structural changes without asking permission first). In order to function as a Wiki, we need to follow Wiki standards in all places. I understand that there may be issues that arise when starting out, but moving forward, we really need to follow the standards I mentioned, as well as other standards that define a Wiki.
To finish this out, could you please provide the information requested (such as the previous experience on Scratch and other Wikis) or explain why it is not available? In the discussion above, you appear to be trying to avoid those questions by changing the subject.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 00:12, 9 November 2015 (MET)
No, I'm not avoiding it by changing the subject. I feel like you're saying I should be stupid just because I'm new, and I don't want to answer a question phrased like that. But since a lot of people seem to want the answers, I will say them.
  • The only "experience" I have is how to read websites and find out stuff from them. There's a link to something called the community portal on the scratch wiki where people ask questions. I look at links and find stuff out, in a similar way you all did when you were new. Have all your questions been answered? U W N (talk) 01:13, 9 November 2015 (MET)
I never said that you should be inexperienced because you are new, I was just asking you to support your claims (such as "I have earned Scratch and believe myself pretty experienced" and "I am fluent in the way MediaWiki works"). I apologize if my (or anyone else's) questions appeared to be rude, we just wanted to have the answers, which until now you weren't really providing. Thank you for clarifying the situation.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 14:08, 9 November 2015 (MET)

Quick Request

Hi U_W_N! I was wondering if you could look at this CP topic and comment? Test-Scratch-Wiki_talk:Community Portal#Proposed Edits #2 Thank you! :) - ErnieParke (talk) 02:34, 4 November 2015 (MET)

OK, I will. And also, my username is U_W_N, not U W N. U W N (talk) 02:35, 4 November 2015 (MET)

What are you talking about? I never misspelled it...

I'll keep this in mind. ErnieParke (talk) 02:41, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Yes, you did misspell it. You just changed it later. U W N (talk) 16:20, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Request #2

Hello again U_W_N! Can you look at Test-Scratch-Wiki talk:Community Portal#Proposed Edits #3? Thank you a lot! ErnieParke (talk) 23:41, 7 November 2015 (MET)

Please act carefully!!!

You deleted Scratch_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal but in the SideBar it was still linked! So everybody using the Sidebar to get to CP must have thought CP is gone. I now changed the sidebar so the problem is solved Mtwoll (talk) 14:32, 4 November 2015 (MET)

I did not delete it, I asked for it to be deleted. Those are two different things. U W N (talk) 16:15, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Please keep away from administrative things before discussing it at the CP

You are doing many administrative things, that you can even do without being an admin because we did not protect everything: But you cause problems by doing this. Examples:

  • deleting the Content of CP to shift it to another Articlename
    • but forgetting (or not allowed) to change the SideBar-Link to CP
    • and forgetting to move also the subpage /Header to the new CPs-Articlename
    • and not discussing that all templates we moved here, that are connected to CP, will also have dead links
    • so perhaps it could have been better to let CP where it was (I'm not sure, but we should discuss it before acting)

That kind of acting does't help but disturbs. Please ask at the CP before you making structural changes to the Wiki. Mtwoll (talk) 14:55, 4 November 2015 (MET)

Those aren't administrative things--are they? Anyway, I will try to use the C-P next time. U W N (talk) 16:17, 4 November 2015 (MET)
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